mast work

Comment

Comment by Clyde A. Phillips on July 20, 2015 at 11:26am

Well, here I go again: I talked before I studied your picture.  I was taking the picture to be of the mast head, probably the main mast head.  Any halyard sheave should be visible in this picture but it is not there.  It should be in a slot through the mast, the center of which is on the center thru-bolt that holds the fitting on the mast.  The nuts on that bolt is casting a shadow down the mast and comparing that with the one below it puts that bolt just above the top of the picture.  Therefore a good third of the slot and a part of the halyard sheave should be visible, but it is not there.

Being the rigger on these boats for some time I am very interested in what's up there.  Can you get some pictures that show the whole head.  Using a telephoto lens allows you to take them from down the dock.  A zoom tele lens allows getting it larger, but don't clip any of the details off.  Use the highest resolution possible so details will show.  That's a large request and is purely for my interests, so don't worry if you can't do this and it's fine with me if you just don't want to do it.

Comment by Clyde A. Phillips on July 20, 2015 at 11:09am

On hanging from a rotten masthead: The halyard goes through the mast and rides on a pulley that is on the center thru-bolt that holds the metal mast head to the mast.  Sounds safe to me, and looks so in the picture.  Since that pulley is not being used get it out of the picture.

Click on my "blogspot" site listed in the column on the right (on this site)  to get to my website on building Newporters.  This site has been up and running for a couple of years or so but is still unfinished.  It never will be complete because I didn't build the whole boat, but by saying "unfinished" I mean that some of the sections may just stop, even in the middle of a thought.  But the pictures therein may be useful.  

Note how the masts are built.  The forward stave (which runs from end to end of the masts) is of several pieces scarfed together to make one piece.  (This is why I said that butt joints weaken the mast.  The bottom section of the stave helps hold the mast straight and "up.")  This stave is completely out in the open, so you should have no trouble in removing the bad section.  Except, remembering that rot does not stop at glue lines and may have extended into the mating pieces.  The mast is basically hollow with the exception of some variously sized solid blocking within.  The head is solid for its top three feet (on both masts), so the inside surface of this forward stave is glued to the head solid blocking.  The box that is the mast is held together purely by glue so you should not have any screws or nails in the way unless someone has already done some repairs aloft and used them to hold their work in place.  A reading of that mast section in my site may be of help by giving you an understanding of what you may run into in doing this repair.  Just studying the pictures may give you what you need.  As Bob said, Sitka spruce may be hard to find and Douglas Fir is every bit as good.  But you better measure the width of piece you need in order to get a wide enough piece of DF.  The original was made from a piece 5-1/2" wide, but your work is where the mast is tapered and a 2x4 may be wide enough, otherwise go for a 2x6.  Follow Bob's directions in finding what you need (he's an expert in that kind of thing).  Also, find some of Bob's remarks on sealing everything with CPES which will do a lot to prevent future rot.  Remember, he's new school and I'm old school.  Epoxy was in the future in my day.  Don't hesitate to email me with questions, but doing our communicating here puts it where others will gain a little help.  The purpose of this site is to help people with their Newporter problems.

Comment by brent and leslie bandi on July 20, 2015 at 12:33am

Thanks for that, Clyde. In fact, my next question was: what shape should the patch be? Okay, we'll be researching scarf joints! I think we'll take another trip up, remove the pulley, survey the extent of damage, cut the piece out (several different plans should be in mind depending on the extent of the damage), maybe some epoxy sealer at that point? Then down he comes, go to Home Depot, get the Doug fir, cut/prep the new patch (Brent's gotten really good at this sort of thing), then back up with the new wood and the epoxy.....whew! Is the mast hollow up there or solid? I need to look at some of these pages because I think I remember seeing one with the mast drawings.

Comment by Clyde A. Phillips on July 20, 2015 at 12:21am

Oops.  Neither Bob or I made note of scarfs.  And I suggest that you contact Bob to see what he says about this.  Any time you take a section out of the mast that makes two pieces of one piece be sure to joint the new piece to the pieces below and above it with scarves.  Butt joints are not as strong as scarf joints, so butt joints weaken the mast.  

We used scarves with a 12:1 ratio to give it full strength.  That was with urea formaldehyde glue, which is not as strong as epoxy.  Check your glue manufacturer for suggestions on the ratio and go with their recommendations.  If you only need to put in a small plug, round or square, you should be safe in just epoxying in the plug.  A study of boatbuilding books from a few authors could be helpful.  It is educational and for some of us a lot of fun.

Comment by brent and leslie bandi on July 20, 2015 at 12:16am

Thanks so much guys! We checked the other side and it seems fine. My husband banged on it a bit with the handle of the screwdriver and said it sounds solid. The paint where that rot is was peeling and bubbled. Fortunately that bracket/pulley can be removed completely since its part of a defunct piece of rigging. That might make the repair a bit easier. We do own a multitool! And epoxy and a wood patch seem like the way to go at this point. I will look into the CPES idea. It's a little unnerving to find that up there when you're hanging from it!!!! But the rest seems solid....solid enough to go back up and fix it :)

Comment by Clyde A. Phillips on July 20, 2015 at 12:00am

I can't add to what Bob has said in a way that would be different.  I find I do not much argue with Bob and that was a learning process.  I'm one who would first un-rig the rig, remove the mast, put it in out of the weather, and do all repairs.  From what I've seen, whoever removed the fiberglass did a good thing.  Fiberglass gives a false sense of security, or at least it did in the early days of the process, but paint also seems to make people relax and not do what in my early days on sailing oyster boats was done yearly without fail.  I was to young to work on them, but I watched as the crews repainted everything every year; masts from the heads down to the steps.  

I would consider two different kinds of trips up and down the masts each year.  The first to look at the condition of the masts, removing loose paint, looking for wood that may need replacing, and marking and measuring and making drawings for all places needing repairs.  The second type of trip is the repair and repaint process.  The amount of repair needed will help you decide whether or not to take the mast down.  

Do not be afraid of doing this work yourself; your assessment of your own abilities will tell you if you can do it.  I personally think anyone with an ability to saw on a line or smear some paint can do what needs doing.  You indicate a willingness to do your own work here; you can build a whole new mast if you have too.

Comment by bob mitchell on July 19, 2015 at 5:22pm

It kind of looks like water followed the bolts holding the pulley on right, which means you might expect that particular stave to be rotten under that piece holding the pulley. Did you check the other side ?

Comment by bob mitchell on July 19, 2015 at 5:18pm

Well, been there done that LATELY, except on the ground! Hopefully that is the only spot. Let me recommend the Harbor Freight Multitool, with  the straight wood blade, for somewhere between $15 and $29, depending on sale price at the time. That tool will allow you to plunge cut the exact rectangular slice without banging up the mast, and it is a very small tool which would be easy to work up there. The arc woodblade is excellent for the longer vertical cuts. Of course you can buy a lot more expensive versions.  If the rot is very local I would just use regular unthinned epoxy for first coat to wet the wood down, and then a mayonnaise thickened epoxy, followed by the wood clamped in place. For the wood I would look through the Home Depot douglas fir 2x4 s for a piece of red clear grained heartwood which should be easy to find since you only need a small piece cut out of the 2x4. Of course, if you had Sitka spruce that would be better, but probably not worth worrying ab out. Be sure to seal the end grain of new piece.

     If the mast seems very punky and you are going to leave it up instead of replace the masthead, I would use Smith's or the Rot Doctor (same product) CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer).  Let it soak up all it will take, then cure for a few days (follow instructions) and then proceed as stated above.  Sometimes it is a tough call or acknowledgement that maybe it needs serious rebuild. Hopefully it is not!